Breaking News: PLP's Political Opponents Still Oppose the PLP
Yesterday's hateful demonstration was instructive. It's now crystal clear who is 'outraged' over the Premier's humanitarian decision to help four innocent people. With but a few exceptions, it's the same people that have been attacking Premier Brown for years.
The Premier's angry and unhinged long standing opponents could care less about the Uighurs. They are using the Uighurs to try to weaken the PLP and take down a strong and effective leader that's delivered FutureCare, DayCare, free Bermuda College and assistance for first time home buyers.
For years, these people have been pulling conspiracy theories out of thin air and making unfounded accusations to justify their hatred. Now, they're trying to undermine Bermuda's rightful remit over matters of immigration. These opponents could care less that two Queen's Counsels have verified a legal opinion that immigration is within the right and control of the Bermuda Government. For the Premier's long standing opponents that showed up yesterday, it's all about their anger and hate toward him.
As multiple humanitarian organisations have acknowledged, the Premier's decision was morally correct. And, he won much needed political capital in Washington at a time when Bermuda needed the help.
When others remained silent, Bermuda led. In the Bermuda Sun, Sabin Willett summed up the arguments of Amnesty International, Human Rights First, Reprieve, members of the American Congress and Barack Obama himself, when he recalled the Bible, ""I was a stranger," Matthew says, "and you welcomed me." And so Bermuda extended the hand of welcome to these strangers. God Bless her for doing so. She has quite shamed the larger nations of the world, like my own, which should have done this a long time ago. In time she will come to know her four new islanders and be reassured. The row will die down. In time, Bermuda will rejoice in the simple act of decency that her Government undertook in her name."
The angry and unhinged long standing opponents are on the wrong side of history. Instead of coming together and praising the government for acting morally, they're using fear and anxiety to try to grab power. It's cynical and it's wrong.
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Spinningsolid at it again ...
Yesterday's hateful demonstration was instructive. It's now crystal clear who is 'outraged' over the Premier's humanitarian decision to help four innocent people. With but a few exceptions, it's the same people that have been attacking Premier Brown for years.
Yet again you attempt to change the goal posts. The ‘outrage’ is pointed squarely at the Premier for his continued abuse of process. Stop lying.
The Premier's angry and unhinged long standing opponents could care less about the Uighurs. They are using the Uighurs to try to weaken the PLP and take down a strong and effective leader that's delivered FutureCare, DayCare, free Bermuda College and assistance for first time home buyers.
Stop lying.
For years, these people have been pulling conspiracy theories out of thin air and making unfounded accusations to justify their hatred. Now, they're trying to undermine Bermuda's rightful remit over matters of immigration. These opponents could care less that two Queen's Counsels have verified a legal opinion that immigration is within the right and control of the Bermuda Government. For the Premier's long standing opponents that showed up yesterday, it's all about their anger and hate toward him.
Publish the legal opinion supporting this claim together with the written verification of two (non-Bermudian) QC’s supporting same.
As multiple humanitarian organisations have acknowledged, the Premier's decision was morally correct. And, he won much needed political capital in Washington at a time when Bermuda needed the help.
Yet again this has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Stop misdirecting the discussion.
When others remained silent, Bermuda led. In the Bermuda Sun, Sabin Willett summed up the arguments of Amnesty International, Human Rights First, Reprieve, members of the American Congress and Barack Obama himself, when he recalled the Bible, ""I was a stranger," Matthew says, "and you welcomed me." And so Bermuda extended the hand of welcome to these strangers. God Bless her for doing so. She has quite shamed the larger nations of the world, like my own, which should have done this a long time ago. In time she will come to know her four new islanders and be reassured. The row will die down. In time, Bermuda will rejoice in the simple act of decency that her Government undertook in her name."
Yet again this has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Stop misdirecting the discussion.
The angry and unhinged long standing opponents are on the wrong side of history. Instead of coming together and praising the government for acting morally, they're using fear and anxiety to try to grab power. It's cynical and it's wrong.
Yet again this has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Stop misdirecting the discussion.
Hey solid,Been missing you
Hey solid,
Been missing you mate. But you are wrong in your ascertion that it falls under the remit of immigration. As stated today by Sir Richard Gozney and many others in the past few days:
"The Governor reiterated that Premier Ewart Brown’s direct negotiations with the US to bring the Muslims to the Island — a process Sir Richard described as an “exchange of notes” — breached section 62 of the Bermuda Constitution. "
Does it not bother you that the leader of a country has purposefully breached the constitution which protects the rights of all Bermudians? Guess not since we all are quite aware of your belief that democratic checks and balances are a waste of time and create great inefficiencies in a political system. If the leader can do it then i guess that allows me to circumvent certain laws that do not fit into my agenda? Sounds about right.
What's your feelings on Dr. Brown lying to the people of BDA as well as the Honoroable House regarding the security assessment on these four individuals? Has George Jackson become part of your mythical combined opposition now?
Also didn't Dr. Brown say this wasn't a "quid pro quo" arramgement? Just a gracious act of from a dedicated humanitarian right? But then you say that it gives us leverage with the US. Minister Burch states that the baselands clean up is back on the table and Jane Correia also stating that benefits will be derived from such actions.
Also stop being a coward and state what you really mean by the "same people" that have been trying to unhinge Dr. Brown. Just say white people you coward. Also there were more then "a few exceptions" (aka Black Bermudians that were present and protesting against Dr. Brown). But they don't count either I bet either right? Just like that West Indian woman stated that those blacks are probably are just married to whites, so their opinion doesn't count either.
No stop being your usual self and state how you feel about the Premier's actions on lying to the people and disregarding the island's constitution...
Answers & Questions
1) You clearly don't take the legal opinions of those who support the Premier as gospel. Why should you take the Governor's? The Premier is innocent until proven guilty.
2) I disagree with the premise of your question. I don't believe that making an immigration decision is breaching the Constitution. And, unlike you, I'm not going to blindly accept the opinion of the Governor. I believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty.
3) Every piece of thoughtful analysis I've read is that the Uighurs do not pose a threat to Bermuda or Bermudians. Stop your fearmongering. These are innocent men who are thrilled to be here and have fallen in love with Bermuda.
4) Yes, he did say there wasn't a quid pro quo arrangement. Yes, it was a humanitarian act. But, I don't think anyone can doubt that we won political capital with the Obama Administration at an important time for Bermuda.
5) This isn't about race. It's sad that you're bringing race into this. There are (a few) black Bermudians who oppose the Premier and the PLP and tend to vote UBP. Many of them were seen in the crowd yesterday. When I say, same old opposition, I mean same old white AND black opposition. Stop bringing race into this.
Um...
He WAS proven guilty of lying when the Commissioner of Police said that these men had not actually been vetted.
And it was Ms. Furbert and Mr. Dill that brought up race...
You're an absolute joke, but
You're an absolute joke, but not funny. I don't care about these four individuals. I care about due process.
And also you pointed out two comments about these individuals in a post and therefore pass them offf as being the majority sentiment held by Bermudians. So going off your logic I guess I should take the disgusting and vile remarks that vanz chapman makes about white people as being the majority sentiment held by black bermudians?
I brought up race??!! You better start looking inwards to your own colleagues. Did I compare it to a lynching mob and state look at the faces of the supporters and you will see why they are demonstrating against your beloved and infalliable. Dr. Brown and the majority of his administration are the biggest race and fear mongerers that this island has ever known and are wideneing the divisions that already persist in this island even further. Especially with that hate speech and blatant lies being spewed on Dr. Brown's propaganda machine known as Hott 107.5.
JMad Prefers Insults to Logic
Yes, call me names. Call me names because your hate has blinded you to the truth that this was a humanitarian move that is deserving of praise.
Yes, in this thread, you brought up race. I didn't mention race once until you mentioned it. As for the lynching mob, I agree that it looked like a lynching mob. The anger and hate was palpable.
If you want to throw stones at others for citing examples of racism, you should follow your own example and stop playing the race card.
Again...
It's not the move that people have a problem with (save the few exceptions that you like to pull up). It's the process of how it was done.
You keep avoiding this fact.
Actually, it Changed
Go back and read the initial reactions. Yours was anger over not being consulted - even though we elected a government to make immigration decisions. You weren't consulted about any other immigration matters, why this one?
The UBP's first reaction was fearmongering. Read Crockwell's original statement. It's all about how these people are Guantanamo Terrorists and oh no, we should all be very very scared!
Then, it morphed into this process argument that amounts to nothing more than differing interpretations of the Constitution.
Your opposition is not rooted in this 'process' - it's rooted in your anger and hatred toward the Premier. And, you're grasping at every excuse you can to try to bring him down.
That is a lie.
My opposition is, and always has been, rooted in the process. To say otherwise is a lie.
As for the UBP... much as you'd like to lie again and paint me as a UBP supporter, it's not gonna work.
I have nothing to do with them.
Since I first heard about this, I have been pissed about the way this was done and not the actual thing that was done.
You're avoiding the point again and just lashing out with personal attacks. Again.
Quote Unquote
UE on 11 June:
My problem with this situation is not that we're taking them. I think that it IS, in fact, the right thing to do. It's the Bermudian thing to do.
What's NOT the Bermudian thing to do is to surprise us with it. To give it to us signed, sealed and delivered (even though it seems the package is starting to look a little frayed as time goes on, to extend that metaphor).
Announcing that we have 4 new countrymen so suddenly, without any sort of lead up or consultation is NOT doing things in the sunshine of public scrutiny.
We're Bermudians. We like to know when we're going to have company over.
This is really no different.
6 days later.. oh, it was the process! The process! Nevermind what I said before! What I was REALLY angry about was the process all along!
As I suspected, UE, it's not about principle with you, it's about simply grasping for reasons to oppose.
Huh?
Do you actually READ the things you quote?
Because you proved my point!
I SAID it was the process, on the 11th June. It's right there!
How do you not get that? How is what I said contradictory to me saying that it's about the process?
I really don't get that...
It's Simple, Actually
You argued on 11 June that the people deserved consultation. Whatever that means. It's a silly argument because we democratically elect governments to, um, govern.
But, no matter, now, you're making accusations relating to the Constitution and alleged 'lies.' No more "consultation" arguments from you on this blog or elsewhere. You've found a new reason to hate and oppose.
As I said, UE, it's cool, I understand it's not about principles with you, it's about your opposition to the Premier.
Seriously...
What the heck are you talking about?
I said on June 11th that we deserved consultation (and it's valid, considering your party promised to operate in the sunshine of public scrutiny) and we should have been told. Which, in case you missed it or didn't understand, means I had a problem with the process.
The lies told by the Premier have come to light after.
Other than adding to my opposition because new things have happened, how has my position changed?
You're not really making much sense.
I notice that you STILL are running away from real questions and are only making personal attacks.
Funny how that works.
Now We're Getting Somewhere...
Your primary reason for opposition changed over time. You acknowledge it. Thanks for your candor.
Over the years, you've come up with conspiracy theory after baseless allegation to oppose this Premier. You're desperate to find any accusation that will reinforce your opposition to the Premier. You found a new reason to oppose him over the Uighur issue, so, you conveniently let your original reason die by the wayside, and, didn't bring it up again until I forced your hand. It's clear that your motivation isn't about principle, it's rooted in your opposition.
What questions would you like me to answer? Please, pose them.
I have, have I?
You're being ridiculous.
You've made an accusation. Back it up. Oh, wait. You can't.
It's another lie from you.
I have NOT let my original reason die. It's only been reinforced by the news of the Premier's outright lie in the House and to the people of Bermuda.
I STILL have a problem with how it was done, that IS the basis of my opposition and no matter how many times you say it, anything else you try to paint it as is a lie.
Your logic doesn't stand.
As for the questions, I'd suggest you'd go back up and read. All the points, issues and questions that you've responded to with a personal attack or blatant, racist, untrue obfuscation? Those are the ones.
The Issue
Instead of getting all huffy, let's talk about the issue that matters to the lives and safety of Bermudians. Are the Uighurs a threat to us? That's the real root of the issue, isn't it? Let's examine some of the facts:
1) The Uighurs were NEVER convicted of a crime.
2) The Uighurs were wrongly accused of being enemy combatants
3) The Uighurs released in 2006 to Albania are living peaceful lives
4) Human Rights First: "the U.S. government has long conceded that these Uighurs were wrongly arrested and pose no security threat."
5) The Uighurs have on more than one occasion testified that they had no issue with the US, the UK or Bermuda. Their only problem is with the PRC.
6) Uighurs have never committed any acts of terrorism against a western democracy.
I'm sure the Premier did here multiple reports from American and international experts that the Uighurs were not a threat. And, George Jackson himself, hardly an expert in Islamic terrorism, said that he doesn't have enough information to make a proper assessment, so, a default status was assigned. S
In regards to the real issue at hand, I think it's perfectly clear that these people are safe and that you opponents of the Premier are doing a disservice to these men by claiming that there's information that suggests otherwise.
Given that you're so committed to the issue, I look forward to a response that addresses the issue.
another misdirection.
I have never argued against that.
Not once. This is a straw man.
The issue, as I keep saying, is HOW it was done.
THAT is the issue. This is what I keep saying.
No matter how many times you say that I'm saying something different, it won't make it true.
I have, in fact, proposed that, should this decision get reversed, a petition go out asking that these men be allowed to stay here.
UE, Not Everything is About You
This isn't about you, UE, this is about the issue. The real issue is if we're going to be safe or not. I wanted to talk about that issue, but, clearly, you are more concerned about yourself.
yet another evasion.
well done.
Make a personal attack, then run away when it's proved wrong.
Here's the thing. The things you are saying about these men being here etc? We agree on those.
That's why I'm not interested in discussing them. That isn't the issue.
The issue is the process.
You're doing everything possible to evade that issue.
no, it's the issue
I talked about the issue. You talked about yourself. You got mad that I called you out on it. That's not a personal attack.
You said you wanted to talk about the issue, let's talk about it. The real issue - the reason George Jackson was consulted - is whether these men pose a threat to us. Let's talk about that, as it's an issue that affects the LIVES OF BERMUDIANS. But, because you don't want to talk about it, I guess you're not really concerned about the real issue now are you?
no, I'm not.
I'm not concerned with whether or not we're safe. I think these men pose no threat.
I don't have a problem with them being here.
Did you miss ALL the times I've said this?
I'm explaining why I am not talking about your issue.
Can you explain why you're not talking about the one I'm talking about?
The Issue
It's not my issue, it's THE issue.
I don't know what issue would be more important than that, but, I'm happy to talk about it!
then let's talk...
about the issue of the process.
you've shown no inclination to do so, but I live in hope.
I have a problem with the process. I've said so from the start.
The Premier lied, which is an addendum to that original problem I have.
Let's talk about that.
Huh?
I've answered all your questions. Happy to talk more. But, as I said below, I really have to get back to work... :-/
wow...
You'll do anything to avoid actually saying anything, won't you.
You haven't answered anything, so... that post is a lie.
Enjoy yourself and thank you for proving that you are, in fact, a liar who cannot give a straight answer.
I appreciate that.
I'm knocking off work in a bit, so I, too should get more important things done.
Read
Read this post. What questions haven't I answered? I'm happy to answer any questions you have. And, yes, I DID have to get back to my job. No, that wasn't a lie and I wonder what proof you have to suggest otherwise? Or, are you just lying yourself once again.
No you haven't
Your intial remark was that:
Yesterday's hateful demonstration was instructive. It's now crystal clear who is 'outraged' over the Premier's humanitarian decision to help four innocent people.
This is a blatant lie meant to divert attention from the facts. The march had nothing to do with protesting the "humanitarian decision to help four innocent people". This is just your attempt to deflect attention from the real issue which yesterday's protest was addressing: the Premier's abuse of both established protocols/processes and the Bermuda Constitution.
32n64w ignores facts
I said in the quote you're responding to that I have answered almost all the questions posed. The genesis for this protest was the decision by the Bermuda Government to bring 4 Uighurs here. The purpose of this post was simply to illustrate that the same old people who have always opposed the Premier and the PLP are the ones opposing now. The PLP's opponents are experts at spinning wild conspiracy theories, making baseless accusations and diverting attention from the issue at hand. The Premier's opponents opposed this decision from day one, before you came up with your mutually agreed upon 'reason' for opposing. My point is simple: you opposed first, came up with your rationale later.
Simpoly Wrong.
The genesis for this protest was the decision by the Bermuda Government to bring 4 Uighurs here
The Bermuda Government had absolutely nothing to do with this decision. It was the uninformed, ill thought out and disrespectful act of a solitary person: the Premier. This is what the protest is about; a blatant abuse of process. Your attempts to characterise it as anything other than that are nothing but more lies.
Um, Yea...
The group that sponsored it was originally called Bermudians Against Terrorists. It's important to note that the protest organizers begin promoting it when the group was called Bermudians Against Terrorists. It's also important to note that the majority of the group's Facebook members joined when it was called Bermudians Against Terrorists.
You're the one that's lying and spinning to cover up the hateful truth of the genesis of your protest.